Showing posts with label guy-girl relationships. Show all posts
Showing posts with label guy-girl relationships. Show all posts

10.03.2011

Emotional Boundaries, Part I and II

Becky: So I was talking with my friend G------- this afternoon, and we were talking about emotional boundaries and it got me to thinking about them. We talked about how, with physical boundaries, it's pretty easy to be clear on what they are when you've crossed them (if you set up them up in the first place, that is). But we agreed that emotional/spiritual boundaries in relationships are much harder. . . both of us feel the need for them, but we can't really clearly define what that means, or what specifically is "out of boundaries" in this area. Also, as I consider my knowledge of the Bible, I wonder about the need for emotional boundaries. God is clear about not having a hint of sexual immorality, and that's what the church tends to focus on when counseling young people about relationships. But I can't recall anything about "emotional immorality" and all I see is an overwhelming command to love others. With friendships, we don't feel the need to set emotional boundaries, so why is it different in guy/girl relationships?

So I guess my questions are: What does God have to say about emotional boundaries in relationships? How do we go about defining those boundaries? What should those boundaries be and at what point is what level of disclosure appropriate (dating vs. engagement vs. marriage)?

Dad: It has been fascinating to observe a huge shift in this area during my life-time. When I was a child, it was rare for people to openly share their struggles unless they were really close to someone or in a dire circumstance. The disadvantage is that people can struggle in loneliness and despair and never receive the help they need. This can lead to all sorts of self-destructive behavior. The shift has, in my opinion, gone way too far the other way. Even in the church we are encouraged to be transparent, and the value of honesty has included the encouragement to share inner struggles and secrets openly with those who don’t need to hear it. The growth of support groups dealing with specific categories of struggle and boundaries defining what’s appropriate can give direction to the needed transparency, but in many relationships there is neither purpose nor boundaries in conversation. Specifically among Christians we throw in a holy phrase such as, “Please pray for ... really struggling with…” Now that could really be helpful, or could cross needed boundaries depending on the situation.

We definitely need trust to build healthy relationships, and honesty is a necessary ingredient of trust. Honesty, however, doesn’t require that we discuss everything about everything and everyone, even ourselves. There is a dynamic in the human condition that we tend to follow our focus. If we focus on good things, we tend to follow them. If we focus on negative things, we will follow them. So we need some guidelines to help us build healthy relationships that encourage us to improve ourselves and encourage others in their improvement, yet also help each other in our struggles. And, we need to find biblical principles to help us create those guidelines so we know they are good ones. I’ve made a list that I thought of as I read your message, so the order may not make sense, but they are what came to mind.

Sharing our struggles or listening to other’s problems should not enter the realm of gossip. Gossip is sharing information that puts someone in a negative light, even if they deserve it. There have been times that I really needed help with a relational struggle, so I sought out the council of someone I trusted. As a general rule of thumb, I talk to someone who doesn’t know the person I’m struggling with, and I don’t use their name, or we agree to call him Joe or Suzie, or some gender-free name like Chris. That way I can be sure not to be gossiping, even if I say that they are a really bad person or something. This takes incredible discipline, because if you practice it, you will likely be the only one you know who does. Most everyone gossips daily or just talks loosely about whatever comes to mind without the thought of how their talk makes others look.

We can also color our sharing in order to give an impression of ourselves to others. We may try to make ourselves look better, try to generate pity, try to build unhealthy dependence, etc. We must constantly examine our motives in a conversation. Ask yourself, “Am I trying to manipulate the hearer in the way I share information?” I would venture to say that most of us have impure motives in many of our conversations. We want others to like us, or we are trying to motivate some response by what we say. Of course motivating a response isn’t always negative. As a matter of fact, that’s why we converse. What we need to examine is if the response is being manipulated, or is it appropriate and healthy.

A specific example is if our sharing manipulates a relationship into an unhealthy dependence. An unhealthy dependence can be a couple of things. It can mean that someone is dependent in an area they should be independent. An extreme example would be if I lose my job and share that with my rich friend who gives me a couple of thousand dollars to help my family get by. Now rather than using my time and resources to get another job, I spend my time trying to get him and possibly others to give me more money. More common examples of this type of unhealthy dependence would be letting others do all the work around the house, letting others do homework for you, letting others make decisions you should make for yourself, etc.

Another aspect of unhealthy dependence is depending on the wrong person in an area where you need help. Always turning to your peers for help in a mental health or moral struggle would be an example. Another might be calling your best friend to help you deal with a situation of abuse, when you should call the police and/or a professional counselor who is trained to deal your type of situation. This type of unhealthy dependence is very common, and can become mutual. We call it co-dependence. It can even be that two people in a relationship can depend on each other in two unrelated areas and enable each other to continue in inappropriate behavior because of their dependence. An example is the abusive husband who depends on his wife for housework, and she depends on him for income. They continue to rely on each other in spite of some kind of abuse in the relationship. The unhealthy dependence actually affirms the other inappropriate behavior.

A guideline to help you decide who to share with is asking yourself if the person you are sharing with can actually help you, or refer you to someone who can. If your parents are abusing you, just telling your friends may be inappropriate, but if you know someone who has been helped through this before, they may be able to refer you to a person who can help you.

One biblical concept that also can be applied to this is the verses about giving up childish ways. This can be an encouragement to take responsibility for our own lives and leave behind childish dependence. It is just part of growing up as an adult, and as a maturing Christian.

You recently mentioned the verses about bearing one another’s burdens, and at the same time carrying our own load. This is a key concept in this. We should do all we can to take responsibility for ourselves and not depend unnecessarily on others. At the same time, we should help others when they really need it. The truth is that we can help others more effectively from a position of health than from the position of mutual need.

Another passage that comes to mind is the one that says to think on good things. Yes we should be appropriately honest about our struggles with those who can help. But we shouldn’t wallow in our troubles. Our primary focus should be on those things and those people that inspire us. Finding true heroes is difficult these days, especially since there is such an effort to show the failings of famous people so that we don’t hold them up too highly. What is often missed is the inspiring accomplishments of great people. Yes they are sinners too, but they have done something exceptional that we can learn from and seek to imitate to help us rise above our troubles too. God wants us to be victorious, not pitiful.

I’m not always sure what motivates it, but some just seem to have loose tongues and let it all hang out, or can’t help airing their dirty laundry. It’s kind of like gossip. Those who gossip to you will gossip about you. Those who share inappropriately to you will share inappropriately about you. If a conversation is not able to help those involved and those discussed, it probably shouldn’t happen.

Becky: Lots of good thoughts. I appreciate this greatly. I think it helps especially with friendships (particularly with girls, who do love a good gossip). I've definitely observed to be true the idea of focusing on good in relationships. Now, I'm wondering more about how this applies to relationships between guys/girls. The idea of using emotional intimacy as a way of manipulating others, especially in how they think of us, rings true - I can think of instance in which I've done that in my relationship. But what do you have to say about the appropriate level of disclosure in dating/engagement/marriage relationships? Does it change, like physical intimacy does? I'm trying to think of a good example, but none immediately comes to mind. Maybe it would help to define "emotional intimacy" . . . like you said, I think most emotions can be categorized as about others or about ourselves. Those emotions about others can be covered with what you said about gossip. But I think that there are emotions about ourselves that we desire to share with someone, and not with the motivation to manipulate them. I guess it depends on what our motivation with sharing is then. Okay, I think I answered my own question, to some extent. It's still hard to verbalize though (sorry, just thinking out loud here). . . and do those boundaries change as a relationships increases the level of commitment?

Dad: Yeah, I didn't really make the points regarding guy/girl relationships. It is definitely a huge category in this discussion, and probably one which needs to be addressed. I suppose I was trying to focus on the areas you need to focus on right now.

The thing that happens in a romantic relationship is there are a whole new set of feelings that cloud our thinking. Guys and girls often approach these relationships for different reasons. Guys are much more motivated by sight and touch, whereas girls are looking more for affirmation and security. The potential to develop co-dependence is tremendous, and I'd guess more common than a healthy inter-dependence.

One speaker I heard on Focus on the Family said that guys are willing to give love in order to get sex (or you could say some level of physical intimacy), and girls are willing to give sex in order to get love. in a relationship of this type, the end result is that only the guy gets what he wants, because what he is giving isn't really love at all. Now I know this isn't your situation, but you need to examine your motives in having a boyfriend. Are you seeking someone who is motived to get close to you so you have someone to lean on to help you through this difficult emotional time? What are you willing to give in order to get that? Is he struggling with growing into manhood, and finding a girl who struggles with something he can try to help, or at least be a good listener, make him feel needed and thus affirmed in his transition? If either is the case, it is an unhealthy, co-dependent relationship. Now I may have overstated it, but you get the idea, I think.

There is just so much more emotion in romance than friendship. Two mature and well-adjusted young adults can better handle the additional emotions of romance, than one or two who are struggling just coping with themselves. The temptation is thinking that finding the right mate will solve your individual struggles. This is way false. Individual struggles don't cancel each other out when adding a new person to the equation. They just add additional struggle. It may be more mathematically accurate to say they multiply into additional struggle.

Of course you will never be perfect enough to enter a romantic relationship, but being well on your way to your own maturity is essential. Strong emotional struggles need to be under control before you open the romantic feelings that will inevitably complicate your life.

Before We Wed. . .

Becky: Do you think you could make up two lists for me? One: I would like a list of "doctrine" or theology issues that you think pre-engaged/married couples should talk about before they get engaged/married. Two: a list of any other issues you think it's important to talk through. I kind of have these kinds of lists already myself but mostly curious what you think, and want to make sure I don't miss anything.

Dad: First of all, every couple will have a degree of differences in theology. For some it means that one person has strong convictions and the other doesn't, so they will tend to follow the one with the convictions. Others have a desire for unity in all areas, and really struggle to get there, and may never fully agree, but can still get married. Mom and I are somewhere between the two. I tend to have the stronger convictions, but Mom cares about stuff too, so we worked most everything out, or decided that the areas of disagreement weren't that important. It is amazing to me that people get married sometimes and they even attend different churches -- Baptist/Catholic, Lutheran/AC, Catholic/Jewish (that's the biggest stretch I've heard of). I suppose it can be done, but I don't recommend it. I suggest you fully discuss the important issues, and come to a level of agreement/disagreement that you can live with, and still love and respect each other. Of course 100% agreement would be nice, but unrealistic. It doesn't mean that one is wrong and the other right, because we are all right and wrong in some ways. It just helps you understand where your struggles may be, or what areas to leave alone. As far as a list is concerned, I'll try to give you the topics I think are important to discuss so that you can see where you each stand and see where agreement/compromise needs to be worked out.

-The absolutes of the Christian Faith should be absolute, and for that list, I can attach a document if you want, but I suspect you already agree on those things, or one of you wouldn't be a Christian.
-Baptism
-Lord's Supper
-Worship preferences
-Prayer
-Discipleship
-Family devotions/worship
-Church involvement - denomination, worship style, size, family/children/youth approach, etc.
-End-times beliefs (very low on my list)
-Free will vs. Reformed views
-Bible Study
-Tithing
-Stewardship
-missions
-vocation
-Biblical standards for living
-Parenting
-Roles of husband/wife, Dad/Mom


Other Issues (since theology affects everything, there will be some overlap here):

-understanding personalities
-parenting
-education
-finances
-birth-control
-vacation preferences
-boundaries/standards - other friends, physical involvement before marriage, TV, movies, music, books, etc.
-spending time with extended family
-house size/type (this may change as needs change)
-where to live - country, city, overseas, etc.
-car types
-modesty
-fitness
-entertainment preferences
-politics
-sleep needs
-nutrition
-pets
-personal gifting/dreams/life-goals
-living in American culture

I'm sure there is more, some of which would come up naturally if you attempt to tackle a list like this. If I think of anything else to add, I'll let you know. Keep in mind that most couples don't discuss much of this. They just get married because they feel like it. Your advantage is that the feelings will get stronger after you get married, instead of fading after you get married, which is common for those who get too physically involved before the wedding. Of course the whole area of sex will need to be discussed, but most of that discussion will happen after the wedding.

4.05.2009

To Dance or Not to Dance

Becky: Why is it that so many guys don't like to, or downright refuse to dance? You'd think that, with their superior athleticism, it would be something they'd enjoy. But no - getting a guy to dance in any way, shape, or form can be like pulling teeth. What is up with that?
Disclaimer: I realize that there are guys who do enjoy dancing, and I give you a big thumbs up for that. I carefully phrased it "so many" and not "all" for a reason. :)

Dad: Oh boy, I think you're picking on me this time. I just read this late and I won't answer tonite. On second thought, it may help me sleep. Hopefully this subject won't have the same effect on readers.

Some guys don't like to dance because of a variety of reasons:
1. They feel awkward because it can be an artistic expression, and involve a grace that girls usually feel more comfortable with. In that sense, dancing seems like something for girls.
2. Girls like to dance therefore they don't!
3. They are self-conscious about how they look, and don't want people watching them "perform".
4. They really like girls, and that is scary, especially if you have to be that close to one. They don't know how to act around these mysterious, beautiful creatures, and don't want to do something dumb that would jeopardize their chances of capturing one. For a guy who is innocent in guy/girl relationships - in a positive way - touching, or being paired up with girl can be a significant thing. It gets the mind running and, depending on the actions of the girl, can evoke a lot more than what (or maybe exactly what) the girl is trying to start. Now, I don't think most girls even think that, but based on how some flirt, there are a few that sure seem to like to stir the pot.
5. They think that cool guys don't dance, and they want to be cool.
6. They don't like the music.
7. It's pretty rare when someone gets hurt bad, and there are never any car crashes or explosions.

For me (as you know, I'm not too wild about dancing), I think it is mostly that I feel awkward trying to figure out what to do. If the dance has learnable steps, I don't learn them too fast, and feel stupid. If I know the steps, I usually enjoy it a bit, but the process can be slow. I'm not opposed to dancing, if done in a tasteful, non-seductive manner, and it can be a good way for guys and girls to learn to relate, although it does tend to feel more feminine than masculine (see # 7).

3.27.2009

But I Don't Like You!

Becky: The other night, while we were watching a movie as a family, we all noticed that the heroine was being very foolish in allowing a man she quite obviously didn't like continue pursuing her, without telling him that she wasn't interested. Dad, you jokingly (with a tinge of seriousness) turned to me and said, "You'd better not ever lead a guy on like that!"

So now, my question is this: What are the things a girl does to "lead on" a guy? How can a girl have meaningful friendships with the young men around her, without making them think that she likes them? Are their several absolute "do not do this if you don't want a guy to think you're interested" gestures, words, or actions?

Dad: Just to set the record straight, guys can do the same things, as far as leading on. Watching Spiderman 2 reminded me. Peter is conflicted about his role as a super-hero, and his love for M.J. He feels he can't tell her how he feels because it would put her in danger with his enemies. I bring this up because what drives me crazy is the lack of communication between people who obviously have a certain level of trusting relationship, even if it is just a good friendship.

Balancing on the tightrope of young relationships is extremely difficult, and if you make it to the other end without ever falling, you'll be one in a million (which reminds me of a Paul Overstreet song which reminds me of you, but I digress...). If you can actually define the status of a relationship it helps you determine what is appropriate. In the movie situation you mentioned, the guy had clearly stated his intentions -- to marry her. In that situation, it just bugged me that she really didn't like him, and yet just barely put him off. She could have just stated straight out that she wasn't interested, that he should stop pursuing her, and he should consider looking for someone else. The problem is that quickly resolved conflict makes movies too short, so they had to keep it going until he did something really dumb.

In real life, people don't usually pursue each other so blatently. Occasionally someone will ask the other if their relationship will ever move to the next level, and in that case, tactful honesty is the best response. If you're not sure how best to answer, or are unsure of your answer, it's okay to say you'll have to think about how to reply, and share with your parents, or a mature, trusted friend/mentor how you feel, and get suggestions about how to respond. In reality, the typical situation involves uncertainty about the future of a relationship, and both are reluctant to ask about it, or even wonder if they should.

Since you and I have talked about the courting concept vs. dating, I won't go into that here, but in your case, if the subject comes up with a male friend, it may be wise to share your planned approach. That way, you may relieve any tension either of you may feel as you get to know each other. One sure fire way to avoid conflict in this area is to keep from getting too close in the first place. That may seem cold, but if they think there is a possible dating relationship, and you don't get too close, it may not come up, and if it does, you can explain your plan.

Overall, clear communication as opposed to hoping they get it by hints, lies, tricks, etc. is better. It's funny that, like Peter Parker, we think our good friend can't handle the truth, so we may keep them guessing. If we have a trusted friend, let them decide how they will handle the truth. If they are mature, they will process it and go on. If not, they aren't the right person anyway. A few weeks after Mom and I became friends in college, she asked me if I thought our relationship would ever become more than just friends. I said, "Probably not," and she said it relieved some tension, and enabled her to just be friends and let things happen naturally, if they were to happen at all. Of course I was just unsure at the time, and we eventually saw what God had in mind. It just helped to open the subject and have that understanding.

One strategy that you can use to communicate is referring pursuers to your Dad. You can just say, " before I date/court anyone, he has to talk to my Dad." That way only the most confident guys will continue, and that gives you the chance to let me know what you think about him, and I can fend him off accordingly, or if you think it's a good thing, I can check him out for you, and encourage him too continue.

As far as what "leads a guy on"... It doesn't take much. Remember that guys are especially suckered by flirting. If you look at him in that ever-so-slightly-overly-friendly way that just might say, "I could possibly be interested in you," he will see it as an invitation to pursue. Also, what you wear (revealing, tight, etc.), how you stand (bent over, butt sticking out, leaning on him, etc.), and any physical touch communicate far more than you realize. Guys are so visually and physically motivated. Just be careful, and assume that any of those kinds of friendliness can be misunderstood. Obviously everyone is different as far as the degree to which those things affect them, but guys are still guys.

(You can see why some take an extremely conservative course -- long dresses, high collars, no dating, etc. It's not because they are naive about sex, it's because they understand it's power, and don't even want any hints of going that direction.)

In the long run, we all appreciate genuineness in relationships. If a guy thinks a girl is flirting, he might like it, but when he is alone, thinking it through, he may have the maturity to realize she's being shallow. Now, not all flirting is bad. Those "shallow" routines can be the start of interest, but they won't sustain a genuine relationship.

What you are doing with your group of friends is healthy. You do a lot as a group, and there's almost no "dating" going on. If you are all mostly on the same page, a lot of difficulty will be avoided. Another thing you are doing that is especially helpful is developing relationships with other girls. Guys should have other guy friends too. A lot of good discussion can develop, and you can help each other grow spiritually, and work out how you are going to approach these things.

(Annie, the movie Becky mentioned was "Belle and the Beast", a modern adaptation of "Beauty and the Beast." It was fair as far as movies go, but the messages were good.)